(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]
SZ[19]RU[AGA]KM[5.50]TM[]
PB[ChampFr]PW[ChampFr]DT[2002-08-24]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: the spectators are gathering.......
BigDoug [28k?\]: at least we're inside the auditorium now 8-)
SilverKCGo [28k\]: is this gonna take long?
PetaWilson [8k\]: the games?
SilverKCGo [28k\]: yes
BigDoug [28k?\]: i think each player receives 1:15
PetaWilson [8k\]: maybe 2 hours
domi [1k?\]: did you find a good seat Peta ?
Zhiwei [15k\]: this is my first time
PetaWilson [8k\]: front row domi
domi [1k?\]: sorry, mean chair
BigDoug [28k?\]: in that case, you have to buy ice creams for the rest of us
PetaWilson [8k\]: ok, no problem, enjoy your meal
PetaWilson [8k\]: and the popcorn
domi [1k?\]: players are preparing the stones, cleaning the board...
PetaWilson [8k\]: hm, i never came further then cleaning the board
]
;B[dp]CR[dp]C[BigDoug [28k?\]: game on !
sould3mon [28k?\]: pfff just in time 
bass [3k\]: the board looks quite clean, seen from here
]
;W[pd]CR[pd]
;B[dc]CR[dc]C[domi [1k?\]: arghh I am in the wrong game
bass [3k\]: oh, now there's a black spot on it
]
;W[pq]CR[pq]
;B[nc]CR[nc]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: score est says b=winning!
sita [2d\]: but it's w's move :)
PetaWilson [8k\]: lol
PetaWilson [8k\]: famous fuseki ?
PetaWilson [8k\]: we might see mane-go?
]
;W[kd]CR[kd]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: hm, not any more
]
;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[nd]CR[nd]
;B[md]CR[md]
;W[ne]CR[ne]
(;B[qc]CR[qc]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[qb]CR[qb])
(;B[qd]CR[qd]C[sould3mon [28k?\]: why are they putting mint sweets there ?
]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[qc]CR[qc]
;W[me]CR[me]C[sould3mon [28k?\]: wonder what they taste like 
benni [4k\]: hey! taking back is not allowed in a tournament!
PetaWilson [8k\]: the players may take back their moves?
]
;B[ce]CR[ce]C[glue [-\]: it is a replay
ChampFr [-\]: sorry, typing mistakes...
PetaWilson [8k\]: can happen, no problem
sould3mon [28k?\]: there playing it in real and    then there replaying it here silly :) 
Zhiwei [15k\]: isnt there anyone to comment on the moves?
PetaWilson [8k\]: w pretty thick here
]
;W[fq]CR[fq]C[watcher [-\]: yes, you!
]
;B[dn]CR[dn]C[igomatrix [17k\]: Can you again announce the players?
ChampFr [-\]: see my infos
]
;W[jp]CR[jp]
;B[qo]CR[qo]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: seems they are playing pretty fast
ChampFr [-\]: quite, yes
sould3mon [28k?\]: champFr  next time   use  the nick   Champ-seeinfo
PetaWilson [8k\]: i would have played the high kakari here though
hirakawade [3d\]: Wo are white and black ?
minismurf [4d?\]: black is solid on the top right , he doesn't want to make the right side a moyo
]
;W[pm]CR[pm]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: o5?
ChampFr [-\]: for names of players see my infos
fredm [15k\]: Helmstetter bernard (w, 4d) vs Ben Malek Farid (b, 5d)
hirakawade [3d\]: thanks
ChampFr [-\]: no fred
ChampFr [-\]: not this game
fredm [15k\]: sorry :(
Zhiwei [15k\]: :)
PetaWilson [8k\]: hm, maybe next time it`s possible to add the name above the board?
ChampFr [-\]: see my infos for all questions please
]
;B[oo]CR[oo]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: thx
hirakawade [3d\]: Where is your information ?
bass [3k\]: right clivk his name at the list
PetaWilson [8k\]: o4 now?
]
;W[np]CR[np]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: from here on i mostly get lost
Zhiwei [15k\]: i get lost long time ago
bass [3k\]: s3, or w can attack
igomatrix [17k\]: how about O6?
]
;B[pk]CR[pk]C[Zhiwei [15k\]: there's another match in champfr2, is it the same?
sould3mon [28k?\]: no
ChampFr [-\]: no
PetaWilson [8k\]: nope
bass [3k\]: another game
minismurf [4d?\]: black appears like he is trying to use the R14 stone for development. isn't that a strange strategy?
sita [2d\]: joseki dict. sais: only o7.
PetaWilson [8k\]: at least q9 counterattacks
PetaWilson [8k\]: seems as w can get away easyly
Haboru [5d\]: usually o7, r7
]
;W[nm]CR[nm]
;B[qm]CR[qm]C[Acro [11k\]: is that because the connection at p7 would have been too good to allow?
]
;W[pn]CR[pn]
;B[qn]CR[qn]
;W[po]CR[po]
;B[qp]CR[qp]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: territory for thickness
]
;W[pp]CR[pp]C[Acro [11k\]: o4 and o7 look a little close to W's wall?
]
;B[hq]CR[hq]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: but w looks very thick to me
bass [3k\]: yes
sita [2d\]: is q4 really necessaryß
sita [2d\]: ?
minismurf [4d?\]: Q4 is the proper move
sita [2d\]: ok
minismurf [4d?\]: but it looks slow here
Zhiwei [15k\]: i think b is in advantage
hirakawade [3d\]: I think so.
sita [2d\]: yes, to me, too. Ihad played a the upper side of the board.
PetaWilson [8k\]: h3 correct? looks a bit premature to me
minismurf [4d?\]: yes, b is so thick that K4 is too close
]
;W[fo]CR[fo]
;B[ho]CR[ho]
;W[fm]CR[fm]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: b creating a weak group here
]
;B[jr]CR[jr]C[Zhiwei [15k\]: is it a mistake?
minismurf [4d?\]: b is ahead on territory
soma [2k\]: so was pincer q7 forcing wrong joseki?
PetaWilson [8k\]: d8?
]
;W[cl]CR[cl]
;B[dr]CR[dr]
;W[hr]CR[hr]C[Zhiwei [15k\]: it's starting to look better
sita [2d\]: for whom? b should be able making good shape out of this, I think.
]
;B[iq]CR[iq]C[Zhiwei [15k\]: black, i think his intention is forming
Zhiwei [15k\]: breaking into w moyo
Zhiwei [15k\]: though still in danger
]
;W[gq]CR[gq]
;B[hm]CR[hm]
;W[el]CR[el]
;B[hk]CR[hk]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: corner safe here?
sita [2d\]: b obviously thinks so.
SilverKCGo [27k\]: i think very safe
Zhiwei [15k\]: looks safe to me
sita [2d\]: If the corner is alive, b is stepping ahead with this move.
ChampFr [-\]: white, looking at the corner : 'so you are not afraid of me ?' and both players smile
PetaWilson [8k\]: :-)
PetaWilson [8k\]: still w very thick, might be interesting to see what happens
bass [3k\]: now w thickness atc8 faces a low black stone, and the q4 thickness is eliminated.. b smiling is reasonable :-)
]
;W[gc]CR[gc]C[hirakawade [3d\]: How many hours for this game ?
]
;B[cn]CR[cn]C[sould3mon [28k?\]: 1:15    and 25 s   5 min i thought
]
;W[cg]CR[cg]C[sita [2d\]: move 45 shows that b is confident in this game?
sita [2d\]: I had played around c11, no doubt.
ChampFr [-\]: about time, white used 25 min. ; black used 10 min
PetaWilson [8k\]: well c6 takes territory again, maybe now h11?
bass [3k\]: c6 makes w thickness only a wall, which makes c13 too good, i think.
Zhiwei [15k\]: c6 shows he is having 2nd thoughts that b corner is safe. ^.^
minismurf [4d?\]: it is big reverse sente even if corner is safe
]
;B[ci]CR[ci]C[minismurf [4d?\]: and, lower right w group has insufficient eye-shape also
minismurf [4d?\]: lower left
PetaWilson [8k\]: but this way b creates another weak group?
sita [2d\]: another?
sita [2d\]: which of b's groups is weak?
Zhiwei [15k\]: p5 ^.^
sould3mon [28k?\]: hehe
Zhiwei [15k\]: sigh, i'm not good enough to review champfr2 game at the same time. i'll stick to this since it's more interesting
]
;W[fj]CR[fj]
;B[dh]CR[dh]C[Zhiwei [15k\]: anyone can guess w next move?
bass [3k\]: sita, the o17-n16 group seems a bit weak :-)
]
;W[df]CR[df]C[sita [2d\]: well, this one I regarded as dead :)
Zhiwei [15k\]: it look dead to me
minismurf [4d?\]: sita, you are too negative ;)
bass [3k\]: groups don't usually come any weaker than dead :-)
sita [2d\]: positive spirit, that's lacking my game! Now I know it. :)
sita [2d\]: right, but when they are dead, you have not to care for them anymore.
Zhiwei [15k\]: i see b in trouble again. see how he change the situation
]
;B[fh]CR[fh]C[Zhiwei [15k\]: always see the board as a whole, including the dead stones.
]
;W[gi]CR[gi]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: which stones are dead?
]
;B[fd]CR[fd]C[bass [3k\]: p5, for example :-)
]
;W[ff]CR[ff]
;B[gh]CR[gh]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: doesn`t look dead to me
]
;W[hh]CR[hh]C[ChampFr [-\]: black left to get a coffee
PetaWilson [8k\]: milk and sugar?
ChampFr [-\]: white played his stone and left too
Zhiwei [15k\]: headache isnt it?
Codexus [18k\]: what is there no one to bring them their coffees?
Zhiwei [15k\]: to h11 or not to h11 is the question
PetaWilson [8k\]: so noone is sitting at the board?
row21 [30k?\]: b at g12,c11 dead?
ChampFr [-\]: I proposed them, but they prefered to get it themselves
ChampFr [-\]: black is back
PetaWilson [8k\]: you made a proposal?
sould3mon [28k?\]: he prolly has  black coffee :) 
Zhiwei [15k\]: calling friends for help
sould3mon [28k?\]: white is getting milk ? 
PetaWilson [8k\]: h13 !
]
;B[gf]CR[gf]
;W[ge]CR[ge]
;B[fe]CR[fe]C[Treky [30k?\]: are those 3 stones at c13, d14, and f15 pretty much dead?
PetaWilson [8k\]: well they are pretty yes, dunno about the rest
]
;W[gg]CR[gg]C[Treky [30k?\]: lol!
]
;B[hf]CR[hf]C[Zhiwei [15k\]: still early to say
Zhiwei [15k\]: f13
Treky [30k?\]: h15, i predict
Zhiwei [15k\]: e13
Zhiwei [15k\]: then h13
Treky [30k?\]: f13 looks smart too, e14. .wow! thats sneakier than my 30k? abilities
Zhiwei [15k\]: doesnt do much actually
Treky [30k?\]: but its SNEAKY!
bass [3k\]: :-)
Treky [30k?\]: cuz ur not connected connected but ur diagonally connected so u can do sneaky stuff
Zhiwei [15k\]: i think w will play a bigger move
Zhiwei [15k\]: j16 spells trouble too
Treky [30k?\]: i think small, but i'll guess sumthin like, m12 ish
Treky [30k?\]: i mean, myself personally, thinks small
Zhiwei [15k\]: the intention for m12 is?
]
;W[hg]CR[hg]
;B[ef]CR[ef]
;W[fg]CR[fg]
;B[eg]CR[eg]C[Treky [30k?\]: to grab sum territory? and maybe even help h13 group
]
;W[hj]CR[hj]
;B[gd]CR[gd]
;W[kq]CR[kq]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: b still getiing more territory and b getting thicker
benni [4k\]: b has a huge territorial lead?
]
;B[ik]CR[ik]C[sita [2d\]: Yes, this decided the game. b has nothing to fear for his group.
]
;W[jj]CR[jj]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: well dunno about that
]
;B[fk]CR[fk]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: not yet convinced
sita [2d\]: "large groups never die" :)
Zhiwei [15k\]: i think w play too thick for his failure
SilverKCGo [27k\]: why doesnt he resign?
PetaWilson [8k\]: w gets cut here?
minismurf [4d?\]: but b is 6d and w 2d?
]
;W[ek]CR[ek]
;B[fl]CR[fl]C[minismurf [4d?\]: he will resign if black group lives too easily
]
;W[em]CR[em]C[minismurf [4d?\]: or if he kills himself on the left in the process :)
PetaWilson [8k\]: suicide is not permitted in this game
Treky [30k?\]: is it permitted in ne game?
PetaWilson [8k\]: lol
Treky [30k?\]: seriously
Treky [30k?\]: and what are AGA rules and how are they different from japanese rules?
]
;B[gm]CR[gm]C[minismurf [4d?\]: first get to 10k, then ask about that
sould3mon [28k?\]: think there talking about other kind of suicide than the illegal move ure talking about 
Treky [30k?\]: 10k?!? thats forever away!!!
]
;W[ei]CR[ei]
;B[go]CR[go]C[minismurf [4d?\]: hurry up then :)
Treky [30k?\]: lol. . . . . .
Treky [30k?\]: if i beat u, minismurf, in a rated game, wouldi be a 10k?
Zhiwei [15k\]: lol
PetaWilson [8k\]: this threatens to cut again
minismurf [4d?\]: yes you would Treky :)
Zhiwei [15k\]: h6 is max to be rated isnt it?
minismurf [4d?\]: yes, so there is some room to spare there :)
Treky [30k?\]: and zhiwei isnt 10k!!! and 6 is max on rated
]
;W[ep]CR[ep]
;B[kl]CR[kl]C[Treky [30k?\]: hey minismurf. .HAVE i played you before?? i remember at least seeing ur name and prolly talking to you
Treky [30k?\]: i think i may've played a game with u too
PetaWilson [8k\]: hm, b corner still safe?
]
;W[lk]CR[lk]C[Treky [30k?\]: which one? theres 4 corners. . .
sita [2d\]: yes, w d5, b c4
minismurf [4d?\]: it seems possible
minismurf [4d?\]: where are you from Treky?
Treky [30k?\]: from the good ol US of A, why?
PetaWilson [8k\]: ah ok thx
]
;B[kr]CR[kr]C[minismurf [4d?\]: just trying to keep people apart
]
;W[lr]CR[lr]C[sould3mon [28k?\]: good  and usa  don't match 
minismurf [4d?\]: then i don't think we have played :)
Treky [30k?\]: i've been through THAT arguemtn, sould3mon. . 
PetaWilson [8k\]: m3?
]
;B[ko]CR[ko]C[Treky [30k?\]: but minismurf, are u sure we didnt' play on kgs/
Treky [30k?\]: kgs?*
Zhiwei [15k\]: w is putting himself into danger by playing m2
minismurf [4d?\]: almost yes
PetaWilson [8k\]: right
bass [3k\]: zhiwei, it's kill or resign for w
Treky [30k?\]: okey doke, if u say so
minismurf [4d?\]: rank is not always related to memory though ;)
Treky [30k?\]: what? are u saying u have bad memory?
Zhiwei [15k\]: i'm not used to the kind of play
Treky [30k?\]: nor am i!
PetaWilson [8k\]: b looks almost alive?
SilverKCGo [27k\]: it is alive
ChampFr [-\]: black leaves, white thinks...
]
;W[jo]CR[jo]C[awelux [15k?\]: so black has to come back while his time is running ?
ChampFr [-\]: well... sure :)
Zhiwei [15k\]: good question
]
;B[jn]CR[jn]C[awelux [15k?\]: how does black now his time is running again ? someone did tell him ?
]
;W[kn]CR[kn]C[Zhiwei [15k\]: m6
ChampFr [-\]: black spent 23 min, white spent 47
SilverKCGo [27k\]: that was stupid of white
Zhiwei [15k\]: b is feeling confident. that's where mistakes can come
awelux [15k?\]: ah, so he can afford a few minutes
]
;B[ln]CR[ln]
;W[he]CR[he]
;B[hd]CR[hd]
;W[ie]CR[ie]
;B[km]CR[km]C[minismurf [4d?\]: where is the white compensation?
oo [?\]: name of the players?please
Treky [30k?\]: why'd black leave though? to go to the restroom or sumthin?
isaka [19k\]: oo, see champfr's info :)
Zhiwei [15k\]: i think white is not thinking normal
PetaWilson [8k\]: hm, suppose b alive now
awelux [15k?\]: relax
sita [2d\]: yes, l7 again shows his confidence of leading by a big margin.
ChampFr [-\]: notice that this is an even game between a 2d and a 6d
Zhiwei [15k\]: b is 6d?
sita [2d\]: yes
]
;W[id]CR[id]C[Treky [30k?\]: how come? why isn't 2d black with a handicap?
]
(;B[pg]CR[pg]C[minismurf [4d?\]: but w is probably a strong 2d also since he at the handicap
])
(;B[og]CR[og]C[minismurf [4d?\]: at the chamionship i mean
]
;W[pi]CR[pi]
;B[oi]CR[oi]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: brave invasion
minismurf [4d?\]: they are playing French championship, in all tournaments like that the games are even
sita [2d\]: at a championchip you allways play even.
minismurf [4d?\]: same as with pros with different ranks
bass [3k\]: too brave, and would not help if it sicceeded
javamal [2d\]: who's playing ?
sita [2d\]: see info of ChampFr.
]
;W[ql]CR[ql]C[Treky [30k?\]: i couldn't make heads or tails outta that
Treky [30k?\]: nm! Round 5: Fenech Antoine (W, 2d) vs Seailles Jeff (B, 6d)
benni [4k\]: why does white not resign? he has almost nothing
sita [2d\]: well, there is some aji left in this position... :)
]
;B[qk]CR[qk]C[sita [2d\]: He plays as if he hopes for the big clash.
Zhiwei [15k\]: q8, r9?
]
;W[pl]CR[pl]
;B[rl]CR[rl]C[Zhiwei [15k\]: i'm always puzzle about the real meaning of aji
PetaWilson [8k\]: q11 looks a bit lost now
Zhiwei [15k\]: better find its home quick or else get eaten by the black hole
minismurf [3d?\]: the _real_ meaning of aji?
Zhiwei [15k\]: is aji refers to dead stones can be used for invasion?
hirakawade [3d\]: Aji is Japanese word, for Japanese also  very difficult for Go word.
]
;W[oh]CR[oh]C[isaka [19k\]: minismurf, your rank got smurfed during this game ?!  (4d -> 3d ?)
]
;B[nh]CR[nh]C[minismurf [3d?\]: yes, smurfy :)
]
;W[oj]CR[oj]C[bass [3k\]: aji means potential
]
;B[ph]CR[ph]C[sita [2d\]: there must be some poor minismurf comments, the server recognized. :)
isaka [19k\]: LOL
minismurf [3d?\]: yes, the same happened in the rengo
]
;W[pj]CR[pj]C[minismurf [3d?\]: but that was a really bad rengo for me so i deserved it :)
]
;B[ok]CR[ok]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: this is s nice ponnuki
isaka [19k\]: maybe you should refrain from commenting from now on :)
]
;W[rj]CR[rj]C[Zhiwei [15k\]: s10 is good
]
;B[rk]CR[rk]
;W[nj]CR[nj]C[Acro [11k\]: well, I hope he doesn't: his comments are very interesting from my perspective
Acro [11k\]: :)
]
;B[hc]CR[hc]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: well w got out!
bass [3k\]: w got out, but lost the cause
Zhiwei [15k\]: b didnt lost much
PetaWilson [8k\]: and h17 very large move
]
;W[ic]CR[ic]C[javamal [2d\]: still some aji in the corner , game still playable to me
]
;B[qq]CR[qq]C[Zhiwei [15k\]: isnt h18 a must?
sita [2d\]: no, w h18 is much smaller than w h17. so this moves comes later.
PetaWilson [8k\]: i was wondering about that left corner, is it really safe?
isaka [19k\]: any thoughts  about b M3 ?
sita [2d\]: it is a big move. Someone will play in this area soon.
]
;W[bm]CR[bm]
;B[bn]CR[bn]C[sita [2d\]: Well, now the corner is save without any doubt. :)
PetaWilson [8k\]: guess so yes
javamal [2d\]: now the upper one :-)
]
;W[dq]CR[dq]
;B[cq]CR[cq]
;W[er]CR[er]
;B[eq]CR[eq]C[ladget [26k\]: is there still any chance to for w?
PetaWilson [8k\]: something like d18 maybe?
ladget [26k\]: chance to win
javamal [2d\]: well, playing d18 against someone who gives you 4 stones is quite a challenge :-)
Zhiwei [15k\]: i got some interesting ideas with w h18
]
;W[eh]CR[eh]
;B[dg]CR[dg]
;W[dq]CR[dq]
;B[cr]CR[cr]
;W[an]CR[an]
;B[ao]CR[ao]
;W[am]CR[am]
;B[bp]CR[bp]C[sita [2d\]: w h18, b g18 and then?
]
;W[bj]CR[bj]
;B[bi]CR[bi]C[Zhiwei [15k\]: f18, g19
]
;W[ib]CR[ib]
;B[lh]CR[lh]C[sita [2d\]: m12 seems to be quite cool to me...
]
;W[nb]CR[nb]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[mc]CR[mc]
;B[pb]CR[pb]
;W[gb]CR[gb]
;B[lq]CR[lq]C[isaka [19k\]: :)
Zhiwei [15k\]: oh oh
]
;W[mr]CR[mr]
;B[mq]CR[mq]C[PetaWilson [8k\]: captures 3 stones
sould3mon [28k?\]: any1  want some piece of pizza ?  :) 
ChampFr [-\]: white resigns
Zhiwei [15k\]: w plays well
bass [3k\]: congrats to black
PetaWilson [8k\]: thanks to all
Codexus [18k\]: that was a cool game to watch. thanks to all for the comments
Zhiwei [15k\]: i like this game. i can understand most moves
ladget [26k\]: thanx for comments
PetaWilson [8k\]: i understood some of the moves :-)
PetaWilson [8k\]: thanks for the live-show
])))
